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over 2014–2023:
79 were pedestrians
83 were occupants of other vehicles
38 were school bus occupants
Why are they adding that the bus driver KNOWINGLY drove the bus into danger. I see kids shouting afterwards; no evidence that she intentionally ignored the crossing arms coming down.
There is always a danger in traffic situations.
If they are brought to school by car, by sleepy or stressed parents,
they're probably in more danger of not getting to school alive.
In my country, on September 20th 2018, 4 kids died, 1 kid and the driver were badly injured, after an electrically powered cargo bike-like vehicle, a Stint, ended up under the closed level crossing barriers and was subsequently hit by a train. Our media didn't immediately accuse the driver, they called for a big investigation. This was thoroughly investigated, but it provided no conclusive evidence of a defect or human error that directly explains the crash. However, the Dutch authorities, including the Human Environment and Transport Inspectorate (ILT) and TNO, still concluded that the vehicle was not sufficiently safe for transporting passengers, with possible issues related to braking and controls. The Dutch government suspended the approval of the Stint for public road use, and it was later permanently withdrawn from approval. This means that Stints are no longer allowed on public roads in the Netherlands.
In the years following, the Public Prosecution Service (Openbaar Ministerie, OM) initiated criminal proceedings against the manufacturers and responsible parties. In late 2025, prosecutors reportedly demanded prison sentences and fines for two company directors, alleging they provided misleading safety information.
The driver of the Stint was not prosecuted, as investigations concluded she bore no blame.
In the US, you just scapegoat the driver and their supervisor, on just the opinion of a sheriff. The local bus route of that school district is changed, and nothing else happens. Does that make school buses any safer?
However, children are supposed be safe, once they're IN school.
In the same period, ~507 people were killed in school shootings.
That doesn’t happen anywhere 'civilized' other than in the US.
And if she did, how will you make sure that no one can do that again?
I found reports that she didn't broke the crossing arms off with the bus.
How then can the bus be clipped by the train?
How much time is there between the crossing arms closing and the train passing?
How about having crossing arms that actually do the job.
We have regulation that is aiming to prevent situations like this, and railroad crossings
need to be made safe, even for lunatics like this:
What I'm trying to teach you, is that every time something like this happens
in your country, you just look for a perpetrator or a scapegoat,
so you don't have to actually change anything. Then nothing will improve.
When something stupid happens in the company I work for, the last thing that I'm allowed to do, is to blame the person who did the stupid thing. That's because then we won't prevent anyone else doing that stupid thing too. In aviation, they studied accidents that were blamed on human error. In 90% of those cases, there is some other cause that takes the blame away from the employees; it's system causes disguised as human error. In about 5% of the cases, it's genuine individual error (non-systemic), and only in ~1% there is intentional violation or sabotage. I can almost guarantee you that in this case there was something systemic going on, because she had a clean record.
My colleagues and I have to actually IMPROVE something, to prevent anything like it happening or being done again. That's difficult, but it's the only way that actually works.
If SHE was the CAUSE, then what is the SOLUTION?
Are old white woman now not allowed to drive buses anymore?
Do you think it's an old white woman driving the car in the picture?
You just told me how many old people are driving vehicles,
because 'young people don't want to do it anymore'.
So? What jobs can old people still do, that are safe?
You need to let them have some jobs, if you end retirement.
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in common. If they want to go to America, and they didn't do a suicide attack as soon as
they came in, then they are a very different type of Muslims.
Gosh! I don’t know! Could it be the same group that has politicized its religion so much that it no longer should be considered a religion and should lose its tax-exempt status? The same group that loves to loudly play calls to prayer 5 times daily in neighborhoods that once were peaceful and quiet? The same group that flew four commercial airliners into various object a few years back? The ones who love to shoot up synagogues? The ones who killed a bunch of kids at an open air concert in 2023? The same group that kills Jews at every opportunity, everywhere in the world?
Who could it be? Could it be the Methodists?
No, no, that’s not right.
How about Catholics?
No, that doesn’t seem right, either.
Maybe Hindus? Have they been doing stuff like that?
Nah!
How about Baptists? Mormons? Seventh Day Adventists? Buddhists? Sikhs? Jehovah’s Witnesses? Mennonites? SATANISTS?
No, no, no, no, no, no, and NO!
Gee! I wonder who it could be? I’m totally stumped!
Politically: They are how politicians and supporters achieve their goals.
Commercially: They are how media companies attract eyeballs.
The US has attacked the most other countries, of all countries in the world.
According to the Congressional Research Service, the United States has carried out about 469 military interventions abroad since 1798. That's a clear #1 ranking.
#2: France with well over 100 campaigns or wars in the same period.
#3: Russia / Soviet Union: 30–40 major external interventions
#4: Germany: around 20–25 major invasions or wars
Muslim countries don't even make it to the list.
Why we fear Muslims so, is because that religion is able to motivate people to do suicide attacks the most. That installs fear in people. However, if you look at the deaths it causes, it's not even close. Jihadist terrorism has killed roughly 200,000
to 400,000 people in the last few decades. Before that, it hardly existed.
Jihadism isn't just a religion, it's a political ideology, just like fascism and communism. Those ideologies become lethal when leaders and movements turn them into absolute truths, promise a utopian future, identify enemies blocking that future, and mobilize followers or state power to eliminate those enemies. There is a difference though, while Islam and communism are not inherently violent, fascism is unique in that violence and domination are central to its ideology.
On pure death rates, Germany is the absolute record holder.
Germany:
World War II alone caused ~70–85 million deaths worldwide.
World War I caused ~15–20 million deaths.
Together: ~85–100 million deaths linked to wars Germany helped start.
Russia / USSR:
Russian Civil War: ~7–12 million deaths
Soviet invasion of Afghanistan: ~1–2 million deaths
Huge share of casualties in World War II (tens of millions)
Total across major conflicts: tens of millions.
United States:
Major wars involving the U.S. include:
Vietnam War: ~2–3 million deaths
Korean War: ~2–3 million deaths
Iraq War: hundreds of thousands (low estimate)
War in Afghanistan: ~170,000+ deaths
Combined wars involving the U.S.: several million deaths.
France:
Algerian War: ~300,000–1 million deaths
First Indochina War: ~400,000–1 million deaths
Total: hundreds of thousands to a few million.
If Islam was inherently evil, there would have never been an Islamic Golden Age, roughly from the 8th to 14th century (≈750–1258 CE), though some scholars extend it to the 15th century. The core period was generally more peaceful than much of contemporary Europe, enabling intellectual and economic growth. Cities like Baghdad, Córdoba, and Cairo became safe havens for scholars, traders, and artists.
Scholars and thinkers enjoyed a moderate degree of intellectual freedom.
Non-Muslims (Jews, Christians, Zoroastrians) often held important positions in administration and science. They offered a far greater religious tolerance than the Christian countries of that period. The Islamic Golden Age was one of exceptional scientific, cultural, and economic achievement. It's why we use Arabic numerals, Algebra is an Arabic word, many stars have Arabic names, why so many Greek, Persian, and Indian texts were preserved and why urbanization, agriculture, and industry thrived, spreading innovations widely.
You can see what it is today. This is what it is in the modern world, for all to see. It is a 7th century philosophy that has no place in modern western society.
But it still means that the basis for their religion isn't worse than the basis
of Christianity. Christianity was stuck in the dark ages for 1600 years.
The West only went somewhere when we entered the “Enlightenment Age”.
I would say that the basis of Christianity was worse.
That's a 1th century philosophy that has no place in modern western society.
Meanwhile, the most radical elements in Islam have wanted to take us back to the 7th century for decades, and if we refuse to convert, their options are to tax the nonbelievers, enslave them, or eliminate them. The numbers of these fundamentalists are far greater than some would care to admit, and they are growing as that philosophy becomes more and more popular everywhere around the world.
There is no modern Christian equivalent to this in the 21st century.
The World Caliphate is the ultimate goal for the fastest growing “religion” in the world today. It is to become a Muslim world, to the exclusion of all other beliefs. Alternatively, the numbers of active Christian faithful shrink with each passing year. That cannot be said about Islam.
I am not a believer in any of it but given my druthers, I would very much prefer to live in a Christian society over a Muslim one. The Christians leave me alone.
There are many Christians going back to pre-enlightenment ideologies.
There are now several high ranked military officers preaching END TIMES!!!
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This is their belief:
1) Holy War / Moral Purge – Many Christian nationalists interpret global or domestic conflict as a “holy war” against perceived ungodly forces. This could involve literal or metaphorical battles, often framed as a defense of Christian values.
2) Rise of a Righteous Leader – They often envision a divinely appointed leader (sometimes equated with a modern “king” or U.S. president) who will restore Christian order and enforce God’s law.
3) Persecution of the Faithful / Tribulation – Following initial conflict, believers expect a period of intense trials or persecution, echoing the biblical Tribulation. This can include oppression by secular governments, anti-Christian legislation, or societal collapse.
4) Apocalyptic Signs – Natural disasters, wars, plagues, or astronomical events are seen as signs that the end is near. Many interpret modern geopolitical or environmental crises as fulfilling prophecy.
5) Defeat of Evil / Armageddon – The final confrontation between forces of good and evil, often framed as a literal battle, sometimes associated with the biblical Armageddon.
6) Millennial or Kingdom Era – After evil is vanquished, Christ or a divinely sanctioned ruler is believed to establish a godly reign on Earth—sometimes imagined as a Christian-dominated society or government.
7) Final Judgment – The ultimate end, where the faithful are rewarded and the wicked punished, consistent with traditional Christian eschatology.
For the Jews who tag along with these Christian nationalist ideology;
in step 2 they start the PURGE of the Holy Land, not from Muslims,
but from Jews.
"This is when anti-Semitic interpretations appear most prominently. Some narratives portray a “global persecution” where Israel or Jewish populations
are attacked or coerced as part of the unfolding apocalyptic events. In these views, the “purge” from the Holy Land or the suffering of Jews is part of fulfilling prophecy about trials before the Messiah or the final battle."
I also prefer to live in a Christian society over a Muslim one, or at least as we know them today. We’ve been spoiled by 250 years of liberalism, but currently,
our rights are under attack more than at any time in the last 80 years.
Better start paying attention, because they won't leave you alone for long.
The city was named after the Greek Alexander the Great, who conquered Egypt
in 332 BCE, a Greek ruling class was established there, and Greek culture
became dominant in many urban centers, especially Alexandria.
However, the Islamic Golden Age was deeply influenced by Greek science, philosophy, and medicine. Islamic scholars translated key Greek texts into Arabic, especially from Aristotle, Plato, Galen, Hippocrates, Ptolemy, and others.
Centers like the House of Wisdom in Baghdad became hubs for translating, studying, and expanding on Greek knowledge.
Mathematics, astronomy, medicine, and philosophy from Greek sources
were adopted, critiqued, and advanced. The Islamic world actually continued where Greece stagnated, because Greece was under Byzantine Rule (the Eastern Roman Empire). Compared to the Islamic world, Byzantine scientific output was limited. Greece was preserving Greek culture, but most scientific innovation had moved to the Islamic world, where scholars were actively studying, critiquing,
and expanding on ancient Greek knowledge.
The Byzantine Empire was Christian, and it squashed Greek science.
The religion they had before that was Polytheistic, worshiping gods like Zeus, Athena, Apollo, and Poseidon. Apparently that religion was more conducive to science and enlightenment, than Christianity was. So was Islam at that time.
Obviously, Romans did pretty well in science before they turned to Christianity.
Not to say that there were no Christian scientists, but they often had to fear
for their lives if they challenged doctrines. It slowed down progress a lot.
I think it's fair to say that Christianity slowed down science and enlightenment,
for the longest period of all major religions in our history.
Let us see if we can keep it and avoid becoming just like the “modern” Islamic world.
How about this: We should be concerned with what is happening here and now, with an eye to the future, and try NOT to be exclusively focused on what might or might not come to pass. We can only influence what might happen sometime in the future, but we can never be certain anything we do today will make any impact on tomorrow for better or for worse. We should be less concerned about what five generations from now might think about us, and more concerned about what kind of world our children today are forced to inhabit.
Take care of today, and tomorrow will take care of itself.
oh and to save you the googling,
in·fi·del
/ˈinfəd(ə
derogatory•archaic
noun
noun: infidel; plural noun: infidels; plural noun: the infidel
a person who does not believe in religion or who adheres to a religion other than one's own.
"a crusade against infidels and heretics"
When YOU get shot, you have far less than 1% that it's an Islamic terrorist.
If you are the victim of a mass shooting, it's 50% - 66% likely to be a white man.
I'm definitely an 'infidel'. I knew the term.
There are 6 billion 'infidels' on this Earth. We'll be OK.
And, your implicit racism is showing. White men can be Muslims, too. Check your prejudice.
I can only think of one in the US; James Talarico.
"Faith calls me to act for others, especially those who are struggling or underserved"
"feed the hungry, care for the sick, and serve the vulnerable";
I don't see many Christians in the US 'ACTUALLY' support that.
But I agree; 'ACTUAL' Christians don't pose much of a threat.
"Turning the other cheek" pretty much rules them out.
At least, if you are not doing financial businesses at 'the temple'.
Maybe look into the financial businesses of your 'temples'?
Christian nationalists are spreading blasphemy, for money from the wealthy.
How about an 'ACTUAL' Muslim?
What a strange argument for calling someone a racist. Racism means treating people unfairly, because of their race or perceived racial characteristics.
Was I treating someone unfairly, for excluding white men as possible Islamic terrorists? Well, I apologize to that white male Islamic terrorist, who ever he may be.
True, some white men are Muslim (1%–1.2%), but how many that 50%-66% are white (male) Islamic terrorists? I assure you, far less than 0.1%.
Here's the self identified religions of mass shooters:
Christian: 40–50%
Atheist/Agnostic/No Religion: 15–25%
Other religions (Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, etc.): 5–10%
Unknown/Undocumented: 20–40%
About the 5–10% other religions: Before you start about me saying that you have
far less than 1% that it's an Islamic terrorist, you don't call the 40–50% Christians
"Christian terrorists". Only when there is a good reason to assume that the religion was the reason for the mass shooting, do we call it religious terrorism.
Birds of a feather, etc.
You will be interested to know there are a number of references in the very book he has cherry picked or deliberately misrepresented to suit himself and his political ends, and also for the people who would follow him, that are very fitting warnings. They are found in the New Testament, from which some of the laws of the US have been based.
Here’s a good one: Matthew 7:15, which states, "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves."
Timothy 4:3 states, "For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear.”
Here’s a another one: Acts 28:28-30, which says, 28 "Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.
29 "I know that after I leave, savage wolves will come in among you and will not spare the flock.
30 "Even from your own number men will arise and distort the truth in order to draw away disciples after them.”
Yeah.
Moving on, there was a wise man who once said, “There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.” Manipulate the numbers in certain ways, and you will always get the results you desire.
Those numbers you’ve cited obviously ignore thousands of incidents involving Islamic terrorist acts world wide. We’re not dealing with just mass shooters here. We’re dealing also with bombings, stabbings, vehicular assaults, hijackings, honor killings, arsons, assassinations, sexual assaults, acid attacks, ad nauseam, along with the aforementioned and highly publicized mass shootings that catch the attention of a lot of Leftists as they ignore the aforementioned crimes against humanity.
Cherry picking statistics to get the result you want proves nothing except that you’ve cherry picked your data, to get the result you wanted! It’s true that a majority of mass spree shooters in the US could have been identified as Christian, because that is the single largest segment of the US population!
DOH! Calling Captain Obvious! Come in, Captain Obvious!
There is nothing unusual in that, because it is statistically likely to be the most common identifier in a country dominated by Christian laws and morality. The numbers are ever in its favor, no matter how thinly you try to slice it and call it salami!
However, it can still be argued that, while these incidents are extremely bad (because they are), the motivations driving a vast majority of these shootings are not related to any identifiable religious motivations. This is because, as a whole, they were not! They have been primarily secular or political in nature, and any Christian connection was only made only after the fact in nearly all these cases, which could easily be claimed as an attempt to sully the reputations of people of the Christian faith in this country.
On the other hand, and it’s going to get ugly, nearly all of the incidents of violence committed around the world (the key words to note here are “around,” “the,” and “world”) by Islamists and even by seemingly “normal" Muslims, have been proven to be motivated by their religious beliefs, spurred on and encouraged by the teachings and propaganda of the proponents of the continuing and very active expansion of that very religion. Their rantings, ravings, social media posts, Tik Toks, and official press releases all point to that very fact.
It’s not about dissatisfaction or rights or resistance to oppression. The ultimate goal is the establishment of the World Caliphate so that the end times come and everyone can go to paradise.
Timothy McVeigh did not blow up a federal building because the Bible told him so. He did it in a misguided and evil effort to lash out at the federal government for its perceived overreach.
Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold did not shoot up a bunch of high school kids and teachers because Jesus saves. They did it to terrorize an entire community simply because they were spoiled upper middle class brats who hated their lives and were angry at the world.
And, how about this? How do you explain the latest rash of multiple mass spree shootings committed by persons who definitely have NOT identified as Christians, but as something other than what they were actually born? Several of those attacks have even been directed AGAINST Christians and their institutions.
Your statistics don’t hold much water, really, especially when it comes to the reality of the threats that endanger millions of people around the entire planet. Your laser focus on one small segment of people inside a larger group purposefully excludes the wider reality of the actual real world threat against humanity, merely so it can fit your narrative.
The world sure do look a lot different with blinders on, don’t it!
It’s easy to point to any target you choose in order to make your point. All you need to do is ignore the facts and reality that do not align with your own beliefs and you can begin painting the exceptions with the wide brush of generalization.
And people on the Left still have the gall to claim that Christians alone are guilty of that! Today’s secularist Leftists make those Bible-thumping cherry pickers look like rank amateurs!
What you are doing is making a claim, but then not justifying the claim,
but calling him a liar and then quoting Bible verses that talk about liars.
You could do the same for everyone who calls themself a Christian
and says their inspiration comes from the Bible.
The question is: what is actually consistent with the message of Jesus?
Why don't you actually present Bible verses that contradict James Talarico?
And I'm not talking about old testament verses, I'm talking about the words
of Jesus himself (supposedly).
I'm NOT denying that Islamic terrorism is a scourge on the world and that they are the most fanatical in service of their ideology. What I am saying is that the basis of the religion is not more horrible than the basis of Christianity. In fact, they would have an easier time using the Bible to justify their extremism, than the Quran. It only requires people to ignore everything that Jesus said, but you have just demonstrated how easy that is.
The statistics don't lie, it's the people who interpret them.
Your country has a violence problem to begin with. We had 1 terrorist attack in the last 10 years; one guy who killed 4 people in a tram. It was called a terrorist attack, because the man was Muslim. He also had a long history of psychological issues. However, in 2011, Tristan van der Vlis killed 7 people and wounded 17.
He was a non-religious crazy person, so that was not called a terrorist attack.
I do agree that it's easier to BECOME crazy, with help from a violent ideology.
The chart I posted in 2021 shows that in your country, right-wing terrorism overshadows all other terrorism. If you don't understand how your right-wing ideology is a violent ideology, it's YOU who has blinders on.
I didn't say that it was "Christians alone" and I challenge you to find one lefty who said that, ever. Today’s secularist Leftists are protesting peacefully. Even the attacks on your president or famous right-wingers are not the actual lefties that you are saying they are. Most of them are born into your sick gun culture though.
That's how I explain most of your mass shootings. You put guns in the hands of children, before they understand death. I see guys here who demonstrate a craving for someone to break into their house so they can kill the robber.
Every far-right politician makes ads with a big gun shooting stuff and addressing their hate towards some other group of people. You suffer from a cult of violence. That cult is attracting anyone, believers and non-believers alike. If they have a pre-disposition towards violence, the cult lures them in.
There are also always crazy people. The worse the mental healthcare of a country gets, the more untreated crazy people are walking around. Combine that with almost unrestricted availability of guns, and you get the result that you are familiar with, and I'm not. It's very simple, but most American right-wingers chose to reject simple truths. You can reduce the unrestricted availability of guns or improve your mental healthcare, and you might have less mass shootings. Doing neither means that you accept those mass shootings. It saddens me, but I don't have to live in your country. If you think that it would restrict your freedom too much, or that mental healthcare would be too expensive, then you vote Republican.
PBS has had numerous stories about alleged “Christian nationalism.” Can’t get much more lefty that PBS. Hillary Clinton is another to label white Christian men as a threat to this country.
Also, Matthew, Timothy, and Acts are books in the New Testament.
Stop it.
"Alleged"? When you have a preacher shouting that Trump, your least Christian president EVER, is the second coming of Christ, that's 'Christian nationalism'.
You're also adding nothing that supports who those "false prophets" are.
So let me do that. The Gospel of Matthew 7:15 is part of Sermon on the Mount.
In Matthew 7:16–20, Jesus says you will know them “by their fruits.”
Do their teachings produce honesty, compassion, humility?
Or do they lead to fear, manipulation, division, or harm?
“By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit.
Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.”
Good tree → good fruit: A person with true goodness, faith, or righteousness
will naturally produce good actions and positive outcomes.
Bad tree → bad fruit: A person with corrupt motives, hypocrisy, or evil will produce harmful or immoral actions, no matter what they say.
Everything Trump does and everything that your type of 'Christians' support
is leading to fear, manipulation, division, and harm for the normal Americans and for more wealth for the wealthy.
Everything that James Talarico supports boils down to honesty, compassion and humility. Honesty while facing "Christian" hypocrites, compassion towards normal Americans and people who want to become normal Americans, and humility by saying that Christianity is ALL about how you treat OTHER people.
How has your side been treating OTHER people lately? Just a few examples:
- Trump stopped lunches in schools for children of poor parents.
- Trump let 30,000 tons of food for crisis areas rot in the harbor.
- Trump cat billions of Aids aid for Africa.
- Trump cut pediatric cancer research, already going to children with cancer.
- Trump's cuts will make 12 million people lose health coverage.
- Trump is taking SNAP away from millions of poor families.
- Trump's FEMA cuts will affect many people who are suffering from a disaster.
For no reason other than to please his wealthy friends.
Not everything in the New Testament are the words of Jesus.
I went to a Christian school, with ACTUAL Christians,
I know the difference between Christian love and "Christian" HATE.
It's basically just propaganda to benefit the wealthy and let the poor suffer.
Here's a nice video about one of those preachers, begging for money for a private jet. only registered users can see external links
And he probably doesn't even qualify for the definition of 'Christian nationalism', he's just your standard greedy Christian hypocrite, melting people's brains.
I don't need an answer, I would just like you to think about this.
Piss off.
You are generalizing ALL Muslims in the group of Islamic terrorists, which is actual prejudice. I was generalizing all white men as not Islamic terrorists, which might be a too hasty assumption, because there were even some white men who joined ISIS, but it is not a NEGATIVE generalization. You just wanted to accuse me of something you were doing yourself, which is called the “tu quoque” fallacy.
I only see one side purposefully misconstrue Bible verses all the time,
and that's the right-wing, especially in the US. You are obviously sensitive
to this obvious truth, so you want to dodge and deflect.
The core ethical and moral message of Jesus is Feeding the poor, Caring for the sick, Serving the vulnerable and Welcoming the stranger. Your politics
has completely corrupted that message.
If you look at the core ethical and moral message of the Quran,
it is very similar:
- Care for the poor and vulnerable (zakat and sadaqah)
- Justice and fairness (Surah An-Nisa)
- Compassion and mercy
- Serving society and promoting welfare
- Welcoming the stranger / inclusion
Their politics just did exactly what you politics did; completely corrupt it.
The powerful always change the message into something that serves THEM.
The only reason for them turning to terrorism, is because they have been fucked by Western civilization for their oil, over and over and over again. Israel stealing land from the Palestinians didn't help them like us either.
Please seek help. I don’t think you have been properly diagnosed.
or at least some other people reading along.
That's me treating you like a human being, who is able to change his mind.
Do you think that parroting limpydick is a good argument?
C'mon, you are much smarter than that guy.
The forums here were already talking about mostly other topics than
sex and porn, before I made one comment. You only use that argument,
if you don't like the opinions.
The topics that discuss sex are actually quite boring; there is not much interaction. Someone posts a photo or a comment, and it gets hardly any traction. Do you get any excitement or entertainment from it?
Maybe you're not seeing it, but this website does provide something good;
a wide variety of topics to discuss ideas with people who disagree.
Twitter never offered this and now it's X, it's completely fucked.
I would join Truth Social, but I rather see it die, than giving hundreds of MAGA a reason to be there. You might think that you're looking for a right-wing safe space, but that's no fun at all. I have seen forums like that, it's just a contest of who can say the most atrocious shit. After someone won, saying something that would make Hitler blush, there is nothing to say anymore. In other words; you should be happy I'm here, providing you
an enemy.
Fuck! Get a life, Moral Orel!
and harmful to peace, truth, freedom and the survival of humanity.
If you don't want to discuss anything, why do you react?
This is not a sex topic. Why are you here?
I did not start the politics discussions on this website.
This was going on long before I joined in.
I have the same right to be here as you have.
You just only accept ignorant right-wing bullshit here,
that's why your angry at me. You're a snowflake.
You are coddled, cradle to grave, safely ensconced in the warm “loving” arms of your collective government, enticed with “free” this and “free” that for so long that there is not a man, woman, or child on the Continent west of the Oder who can fend for themselves when the lights go out.
There hasn't been a spine born to a western European male since 1939, when your ancestors allowed a little Austrian corporal to begin to take over nearly everything west of the Urals. Since that time, I believe the collective testicles of Western Europe have shrunken to half their normal size, too, for lack of use!
Without the United States' intervention (twice! We had to help you twice!), you would all be speaking German and saluting a picture on the wall every morning before marching off to a mine somewhere to dig like so many moles underground 12 hours a day.
And lately, with that frightful Putin personality rearing his big scary head in the East, you again had to come running to the US, whining and ringing your hands for more of that mighty US dollar to fend off the Russian bear, whose hot breath haunts your darkest dreams like some dark monster under your bed. You cannot even find the nerve to stand up to him without your big muscly pal, the United States, shielding you!
Thanks to the largesse of the US taxpayer funding your lives of relative ease and security with more than 80 years of foreign “aid" to Europe at large, you have been able to live comfortably for so long in your own safe little bubbles that you feel superior enough and secure enough to smugly judge the very America that keeps you that way, and your people have felt that way since before Elvis got drafted!
You have personally never had a single hard day in your entire life, and it shows!
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If this bonehead understands it, when do you?
You are right, if the US would have joined the fight, the Nazis
would probably have conquered all of Europe, and everyone
would be under fascist rule, probably still today.
And now you're supporting a fascist, who wants to do the same.
Do you think that the US did that out of your kind heart?
Your leaders don't want any powerful regime, besides your own.
The US didn't want Europe to have it's own military industrial complex, you wanted us to be weak and dependent on you, and make lots of money from selling us your weapons. That's what happened, and now your clown is lying to you and stabbing us in the back. I will do my very best to make Europe independent of the US and make your regime pay economically for its betrayal. It doesn't even require much effort, because Trump is destroying your country faster than we could ever hope to achieve. Americans are suffering, jobs are declining, AI will destroy the rest, and the greed of your billionaires will squeeze the life out of your economy. You will either fight them in a revolution, when you finally see the truth, or you will starve blaming the poor.
In Ukraine, you are not HELPING at all, you're just selling us weapons, that we donate to Ukraine, so Russia doesn't run them over.
We are doing that to prevent World War III. Let Putin win, and that's what we will have. Trump is doing his very best to let Putin win easy.
Give him that victory, and it will motivate the Russian people to keep fighting for him. Now they are suffering losses, defeat, humiliation and economic struggle. And because of Iran, Trump is removing sanctions on Russia, so they can sell oil again and replenish their war chest.
True, I cannot say that I ever really struggled. My father came from poverty though. His father died when he was 9 and his mother struggled to put food on the table. That's in a time that women were not supposed to work. The government paid her a widow's benefit. It was incredibly meager. Every now and then people from the governmnet came to their house to see if they were not too rich. They literally looked into the cooking pot what's for dinner. If they found out that you were making too much money on the side, they would take that benefit away. That's why my father raised me with awareness of poverty. We were not rich either. My father has always been a low educated electrical mechanic. He maximized his income by buying a house, instead of renting. Besides food, education, and 1 car vacation per year, we wore very cheap clothes, and much that we got was second hand. I learned the value
of money and the challenges of not having much of it. I see what was available to my father, by working hard, which is no longer possible for low educated working class people today. That's why I'm a socialist.
Every single socialist that I've ever met, has a background of lower middle class and either struggling themselves or moving upward to middle class or upper middle class. Every right-winger I have ever met, ether grew up upper middle class or rich, to not understand the exploitation of the working class. If they didn't, they bought into the lie that poor people don't work hard enough.
Your brain has been melted by propaganda to think that way.
That's why you're imagining this exactly upside down.
That's why you are supporting a billionaire, who is cutting taxes for other billionaires and taking away benefits from the poor and working class.
It's right-wingers who don't understand what poverty comes from.
How can you shit on people who struggle, if you struggled yourself?
I have seen struggles, even though my parents did their very best.
That's what motivated me to get educated; so I can struggle less.
And while I'm doing well, I don't forget the struggles that I escaped.
Tell me about your hard days then?
I came from poverty. I escaped from a system that was designed to keep me poor, ignorant, and dependent, a system with the word “compassion” falsely painted over it. I became successful through my own efforts, and I did so without the “assistance” of that tender trap we refer to as the state welfare system.
I worked hard for decades, sacrificing birthdays, holidays, time off with my family, expending a lot of emotional and psychic energy, to get where I am today. If I had relied on the pseudo-socialist system passing for a “safety net” in parts of this nation, I would still be an impoverished and dependent ward of the State.
Don’t preach to me about how “right-wingers” don’t know where poverty comes from. We know. It comes from the Socialist mindset, where, as a bureaucrat in Indochina once admitted (and I paraphrase here), “Socialism makes us all equal in poverty.” That is why we refuse to willingly participate in it. We escaped it and we do NOT want to return to it.
No one is shitting on anyone, other than the Leftist entitled elites who promise the moon to the “poor” if they would just vote for them, and then deliver shit in the form of promises broken and hot air rhetoric, just to stay in power(mainly for their own self-enrichment taken off the backs of the very people they were elected to represent).
In these modern times, the Haves are now very much on the Left and not so much on the Right, and the upper class hero Karl Marx was an evil fool.
Social democracy isn't welfare, it's your own tax money being invested in your fellow humans, to maximize their potential. In your system, your tax dollars are used as welfare for the wealthy, it's stealing from the average American to give to the wealthy.
You shouldn't have to work that hard to make a good life for yourself. Have you ever considered how much of your labor goes to enrich
people who don't do shit at all?
Look at a 'socialist' country like Norway; their government invested
in their fossil fuel industry and kept it as public ownership. Their investments have created a massive pension fund for the people, instead of massive wealth for a few private wealthy individuals.
By the way, the debt of Norway is 55% of GDP, yours is 125% of GDP.
American taxpayers are paying $1.1 Trillion per year in interest.
Imagine how much less it would be, if your fossil fuel industry was publicly owned. It would make you $300 Billion per year.
The 'haves' have NEVER been on the left. Have you ever seen one ask to get his wealth taxed significantly? They at best pose as liberals or wokesters, which doesn't cost them any money. They are only giving people the idea of freedom and a chance to have a decent life. Don't you understand that an economy is consumer driven too?
They cannot sell much to poor people. Your current MAGA party
has forgotten that, which is why they are crushing your economy.
Wealthy liberals are only protecting themselves, because they understand that when inequality goes too far, the people will revolt
and take back what was stolen from them. And they are paying the Democratic party to never move left too much, because that will take too much away from their wealth. They want you to be happy and obedient, so you will keep serving them.
You have a choice between Democrats who promise the moon and deliver 10% of that, and Republicans who promise to hurt people and than deliver 200% of that. How can you not see their self-enrichment? Why do you think that Elon Musk supported Trump? He got to cut money for poor Americans and then gets tens of billions of dollars in government contracts. He gets tax-cuts, you get higher health insurance premiums. Rural red states are losing the most clinics, because Trump is giving that money to the wealthy. The wealthy are increasing the energy costs of the people, for massive AI datacenters
intended to replace the jobs of middle class Americans.
"Karl Marx was an evil fool" Is that supposed to be an argument?
It just shows that you are clueless. Why is it evil to have the preposition that people should not be divided into classes?
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Most celebrities are democrats,
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NFL,NBA,WNBA< mostly democrat,
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With all that , the HAVES as we know them, rich actors,rich sports figures, rich company owners, ARE DEMOCRAT.
Most of them are more capitalist than the Republicans.
Both parties serve the wealthy. There is one difference;
- Democrats want a stable system of inequality.
- Republicans want to increase inequality indefinitely.
Smart people like Bill Gates and actors understand that increasing inequality indefinitely isn't possible and that it leads to a collapse
of the system, either economic collapse or violent collapse.
--------------------------------------- added after 65 hours
No answers here?
You can blather on and on about the “horrors” of capitalism, which is typical of people who have never actually had to work hard for a living, but that does not change the history of Marxism in practice here in the real world.
Marxism, and all its derivatives, including Euro-style Socialism, has stifled human progress for more than century now, wherever it has been attempted.
It has also killed more people since 1917 than all the wars waged since 1865 combined.
How many innovations in science and technology have ever come from a purely socialist nation, advances that did not involve warfare and human subjugation? Even the advances in technologies in western Europe since 1946 have been relatively few and minor in nature, compared to purely capitalistic societies elsewhere, including the US and Japan, for example.
And, who are you, a privileged Nederlander who has had all the advantages and benefits a largely capitalist system has had to offer since 1946, to talk about poverty? If you’ve lived anywhere west and south of the former East Germany, especially during the 1980s and 1990s and beyond, you’ve known nothing but comfort and privilege your entire life.
You have no idea what it is to do without anything. You have been coddled and indulged your entire life. You are so used to what you have had from birth, you cannot even appreciate what you have now.
And you dare speak of poverty! The privileged truly do not recognize their own privilege!
The problem is that there is hardly any truth to it.
how much tech comes out of most african countries run by dictators? Did a cure for aids come from netherlands?
Most of the tech we use and enjoy came from US tech or perhaps japan. a country we nuked and rebuilt.
I have literally already done that, in multiple ways.
How about you:
1) Make a list of what Lookatmine2 is RIGHT about
2) Make a list of what I am WRONG about
If you are fair, his list is short, but mine is shorter.
There is NOTHING that African dictators have in common with Marx's ideals or my socialist principles, NOTHING!!!
You are just showing how much your brain has rotted.
European capitalism was one major driver of African colonialism and its lasting effects, which are these dictatorships.
There is currently no widely available, conventional cure for AIDS. However, the first known functional cure was identified in Berlin, Germany, in 2008–2009, when Timothy Ray Brown (the "Berlin Patient") was cured of HIV following stem cell transplants.
Capitalism prefers TREATMENTS over cures, because treatment makes more money for pharmaceutical companies.
Since when do you think that technology is good for society?
I'm talking about people prospering. You can have a high tech economy, while people are starving. With AI replacing jobs,
that might be very close to becoming real in your lifetime.
The US reformed Japan in the same way as you reformed the US, through DEMOCRATIZED and REGULATED capitalism:
- Broke up large industrial monopolies (zaibatsu)
- Introduced land reforms that gave land to farmers
- Encouraged labor rights and unions
Stop having so damn many babies and the starvation issue will go away. condoms and pills and simple surgerys will fix that issue.
People that WORK and Make some effort for self improvement are the 1's that deserve to prosper. Those that lay around expecting others to keep them up, deserve NOTHING.
The billionaires are spending trillions to replace working people. Your argument has always been that those billionaires are job providers, and now you are even betraying that principle.
Do you have any principles left that you haven't betrayed,
in favor of the wealthy exploiting EVERYONE ELSE?
If I didn't know any better, I would think I was talking to
the most selfish wealthy asshole, who ever lived.
Your Christian Nationalist Republicans are working very hard to take away "condoms and pills and simple surgerys", because they like to force poor people into god awful jobs for shit pay.
Do you think that work in the 1800s did anything for self improvement? That's the system that your side it trying to
bring back.
now hiring signs are up everywhere, no one wants a job. they want hand outs. you are way over there and sadly can't see the real world over here,you see us thru the media's eyes. i am telling you, people won't work!. why do you think 10% of American cdl truck drivers are over 65? Because they can make good money doing what the youngans don't want to. WORK.10% of the fireman in this country are over 60, I could go on but the point is, if young people wanted to work as much as you promote that they do, there would be no work for folks over 65.
How is that MY "new idea of progress"?
It is exactly what I have been saying; normal people will
lose everything and the wealthy will OWN everything.
Normal people will work for peanuts, until they die,
as long as there are still some jobs available.
They are over 65, because you don't have a decent social security system, and their mostly worn out bodies can at least still drive a truck. They don't want to, they HAVE TO.
And Elon Musk will take that escape away from them.
He will replace truck drivers eventually.
Damn, you have literally turned into a propaganda bot.
You are not refuting ANYTHING I'm saying, you just come up with more and more new nonsense.
"This complaint isn’t new. Variations of “young people don’t want to work” go back decades—sometimes centuries.
It’s often more about changing norms than actual decline in work ethic." You're just a standard old person, complaining about young people, as old people have always done.
You think of jobs as simple tasks, as building something, repairing something, or breaking something. That's not the reality, because lots of manufacturing has been outsourced to cheap labor countries. Checking meters isn't replaced because people are lazy, but because the alternatives are cheaper than people. People are only still utilized in places where they are absolutely necessary. That's efficiency, and it is mostly for the profit incentive.
Mostly, we are referring to the same things, but when people demand rewards from the efficiency that they created, that's not laziness, that's their fair share.
No billionaires have ever achieved ANYTHING, it's always the people working for them.
The communism that you are referring to, is the absolute OPPOSITE of Marxism; it has enslaved its people and resulted in massive wealth inequality, which is the absolute opposite of the Marxist ideal, who describes a STATELESS, CLASSLESS society. Stalin's system was a highly centralized authoritarian STATE,
with a ruling party ELITE. Don't you understand the difference?
Do you understand the difference between state-owned in a dictatorship and state-owned in a real grass-roots democracy?
Maybe you understand it better if we describe the difference as 'democratically-controlled' and 'elite-controlled'. In the first one,
the system serves the people, in the second one the system serves the wealthy, powerful elites.
That 'Euro-style Socialism' has resulted in an incredible recovery after WWII and a much higher quality of life for most people than you are living in the US.
What you are calling 'Euro-style Socialism' today is actually to the right of the political situation you had in the US, in the 60s and 70s.
What you are referring to with "since 1917" is FASCISM, the exact opposite of the democratic socialism that I support.
Fascism: An authoritarian, ultranationalist system where the state
is supreme and dissent is suppressed.
Dutch SP Socialism: A democratic system with a mixed economy, strong welfare state, and expanded public ownership of essential services.
There has never been a "purely socialist nation". As a socialist myself, I understand that a "purely socialist nation" would only be possible after at least 200 years of a large democratic majority wanting socialism, which is very unlikely to ever happen.
That 'privilege' that you are accusing me of, is the exact same for Americans who benefitted from American politics in the 60s and 70s. It's the time that MAGA is referring to; Make America Great AGAIN.
In the United States in the 1960s–70s, “socialism” appeared in the form of an expanded welfare state with programs like Medicare and Medicaid, various sector-specific government-owned or publicly controlled infrastructure and services, public provision of education and housing support, stronger regulation of private markets, and high progressive taxation used to fund social insurance and redistribute income.
That's a level of "socialism" which exceeds the level of "socialism"
in the Netherlands today. You had a Top federal income tax rate of ~70%–90%, we have a Top income tax rate bracket of 49.5%.
You had more direct public provision in housing, more dominant public role in postal/logistics infrastructure and more expansion-oriented public utilities and infrastructure build-out.
The US in the 60s and 70s was still more unequal than the Netherlands today, because your welfare state was fragmented, labor and housing markets were more unequal, and structural racial and wealth disparities were not fully offset by redistribution, whereas the Netherlands today combines more universal social protections with stronger wage compression and institutional equality mechanisms.
The "the former East Germany" was living under authoritarian 'communism'; the state owning everything and controlling everything. You are heading towards "oligarchy with authoritarian rule"; the wealthy owning everything and controlling everything. Explain the difference for a working class American to me.
I didn't share this graphical representation of 'various political/economic systems' for nothing. I shared this to explain something
to people like you, who don't understand it.
"Has Marxism ever made anyone’s life better?"
Marx’s ideas influenced a lot of working-class empowerment movements. Working class people were treated like cattle:
- factories were dangerous
- wages were low
- hours were extremely long
- child labor was common
- people lived in abject poverty
People revolted against that and demanded:
- Labor unions (especially in Europe)
- Welfare state development (indirectly through socialist and social-democratic movements)
- Labor laws (limits on working hours, child labor bans, safety regulations)
- Social democracy (e.g., parties in Germany, Scandinavia, UK Labour tradition in its early roots)
- Academic fields (sociology, political economy, critical theory)
These developments improved life mainly by reducing extreme poverty and insecurity, increasing worker power, and making industrial capitalism more regulated and socially protective over time.
Karl Marx was a major intellectual influence, which contributed to these reforms.
That resulted in YOUR ABILITY to work yourself upwards.
It resulted in the best situation of the working class, around the 60s and 70s in your country. Since then, the wealthy fought back to take these reforms back from you. Today, American people are struggling again. If you keep supporting 'MAGA', it will only get worse, because it is the exact opposite of the ideology that resulted in such a high standard of living for working class Americans in the 60s and 70s.
You sure are dense, aren't you, clinging to the philosophy of a pathetically delusional poor excuse of a man who could not keep a job and who shamelessly took advantage of the generosity of others foolish enough to house him and feed him.
Marx was nothing more than a leech.
The result of communism turned out into the exact same inequality as crony capitalism and fascism. You are completely correct. However ONLY a healthy mix of socialism and capitalism has EVER achieved freedom and a good quality of life for people, and Marx was at the root of that development. Capitalism by itself would have never achieved any of the things that you and phart are celebrating in your comments.
I am NOT clinging to ANYTHING, YOU ARE. You need to believe that socialism is wrong and Marx were wrong, by pointing at the complete opposite ideologies. That's purely because of the propaganda of your media, there is no logical thinking behind it. If there was any logical thinking behind it, you could make better arguments than you're making now.
At least the philosophy of Marx has resulted in some countries with freedom, democracy and a high quality of life for most of the people. That's the countries in the bottom left quadrant of the graph. There are NONE that are based on pure capitalism of fascism.
It's not a joke or hyperbole to call MAGA 'fascist'. It's fulfilling every aspect of the definitions of 'fascism' and all the criteria that fascism studying scholars have agreed on describes 'fascism'. The most important one is: "Authoritarian, dictatorial power centered on a single leader and the suppression of opposition.". That is exactly what you're DOING, faster than any democracy has ever been turned into an authoritarian state. NONE OF THEM ever turned out well for it's citizens and the rest of humanity.
You are pointing to Marx for some of them, but Marx described the EXACT OPPOSITE, he described a system of radical/direct democracy. A system without ANY ruling elites, but bottom up, grass-roots, working class (as the ONLY class) decision-making on a local scala and with delegates on a larger scale.
All those systems you are accusing Marx of, had/have leaders like Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Castro, Xi Jinping and the Kim dynasty, have all betrayed Marx's ideology, for maximum or absolute power for themselves, combined with demanding a god-like worship from their people. That's exactly the same way they played it in the fascist regimes we know, with Mussolini and Hitler as the most notorious ones. Then we have Putin, who comes from communism, but cannot be called that anymore, he's just an authoritarian, but he demands god-like worship from his people, just the same.
NOW LOOK AT TRUMP!! He is following the exact authoritarian strategy, taking more and more power for himself, he made himself almost untouchable now, AND demanding god-like worship from his people. AND YOU ARE GIVING IT TO HIM.
Do you see where you are heading? You were already in the upper-right quadrant, with the communists and the fascists,
but I TELL YOU that Trump wants you to be fully at the upper-right corner of that graph. Am I wrong? If you think I'm wrong, why are YOU supporting EVERYTHING that would be needed to get there?
Write another novel, why don't ya!
All of Trump's best friends are in that upper-right corner.
He hates all the countries in the lower half.
(I'm guessing now that you understand this graph. Do you?)
You’re not going to change the world here. I shouldn’t have to tell you that, but here I am, telling you that you are not going to change the world here.
Shut the hell up and post some dirty pictures.
the question, because then you have to admit to so much I am correct about and so much you are wrong about. That's why you react to the FORM, instead of the SUBSTANCE.
Everything in politics revolves around these 2 major questions:
- Who is in control of making decisions for everyone?
- Who is in control of the money?
The graph is just a tool to make that more CLEAR.
Everything else, that is important to you, is the result of how these 2 questions are 'answered' in practice, by your country. It's the basis for ALL political ideas.
I want the decisions being made as democratically as possible. If that doesn't include any decisions about money, because the money is controlled by billionaires, then it's not democracy.
If you don't understand that, then you have NO BUSINESS
to talk about politics, because then your ideas are based on NOTHING. Then you're just reacting to vibes.
We are not allowed to post dirty pictures here, unless they are your own and you are verified.
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